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So what was the weak point of my list? This may come as a shock...but it was the flying hive tyrant.
For all the love flying monstrous creatures are getting, I kid you not, they are not nearly as good as other fliers. I had four of my six opponents comment on how easy the flyrant took wounds. He was also underwhelming in close combat. Here is a highlight list of bad things that happened to him;
-Drew combat with crisis suits. Twice.
-Killed by seven fire warriors rapid firing.
-Was killed by a mob of 12 shoota boyz.
-Drew combat with a mob of nine shoota boyz.
-Gave up the Warlord VP three times.
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So the list isn't as long as I expected, but part oft hat is because as the tournament went on I started pulling him punches so as to not get punked by things much smaller in size. It is a problem though when a 285 point model becomes a liability. Realistically a 130 point vendetta could kill a hive tyrant on its own. I'm sure you say, "But look at all the good he has done for you," or even, "Sure he sucks, but look at how he distracted from your key units," not to mention, "You only got a usable warlord trait once, with a good trait he wins you games!" Ya. Maybe. What did he do for me?
-Improved my reserve rolls with Hive Commander.
-Took an entire Space Wolves army's shooting with only one wound
and didn’t die.
-Used his speed to get first blood in one game.
On top of that, as noted, he did distract for my key units, aka carnifex brood and tervigons. 180 points of shrikes could do that just as effectively with increased durability and combat output. In fact if I had my shrikes in CA I would use them this weekend just to prove it. Lucky for my flyrant, I don't have the models and so he is staying in the list. With that in mind...
Changes to my 1500 point Nidzilla list!
The game I tied, I tied because I lost the warlord point. I also had to play more conservatively with him, because he was my warlord. If he is a liability to die I might as well be able to use him to the fullest while he lives, so my warlord is now the HQ Tervigon. I talked about this in my original Nidzilla article, about having a tervigon as the warlord to offset standard target priority procedure. I didn't take this advice and it cost me. While getting a VP for challenges and scoring is nice, only getting these 1/3 of the time is not worth the points lost. I believe I will still roll on the personal table, though I may write up a blog on what circumstances I roll on what chart.
The second change is in dropping hive commander. I did use it twice at the Golden Throne to deepstrike more reliably onto enemy formations with the Trygons. This though at most saves me one turn of enemy shooting as I cross the table, and that is at the expense of my deployed units who take even more fire. Even without it a 3+ for reserves is pretty safe. Another advantage of dropping it is that my gents which I tend to reserve will have an increased chance of coming on later in the game. Instead I will give the tyrant old adversary. First this will yield on average one more wound with his shooting, which is a nice small bonus, but it also is going to be big in terms acting as a check preventing him from failing in combat. Charging a mob of orks and only killing two is just plain bad. If all things ran statistically average he should now do 1.5 more wounds against units without an invulnerable save. On top of that, when near other units he can give them preferred enemy. In my game with Reece my Tyrant was right there next to the combat, it would have been no change in my tactics with him to have him within range of several units. I lost that combat because of bad rolls on two units in the same turn. Old adversary would have won me the combat and the game.
So my current list is;
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Hive Tyrant (Wings/Twin-Linked Devourers x2/Old Adversary)
Tervigon (Warlord/Onslaught/Catalyst/Cluster Spines)
Tervigon (Catalyst/Cluster Spines)
10 Termagants
2 Carnifex (2 Twin-Linked Devourers x2)
Trygon (Toxin Sacs)
Trygon (Toxin Sacs)
Between Golden Throne reports next week and RTT reports from this weekend and the next Saturday the week after I am sure to have a lot to say about tactics the week of the 27th. Not only am I getting ready for a GT in September, but I have some serious thoughts about building up my proposed plasma storm list from the vanilla marine book. More on that though after all the battle reports!
I think that he shouldn't be your warlord honestly. tervigons or walking tyrants with Guard are far more durable, and then that gives them fits on target priority. Do they go for the more dangerous or the more important target? In several of my games so far, people have gone to massive lengths to kill the warlord for one VP, and ignored the rest of the MCs even though they do far more for my army.
ReplyDeleteBut then, you clearly understand that based on the article!
Precisely.
DeleteI personally am not set on the foot tyrant with guards. Maybe if I had some hive guard to benefit from OA, but without that I like being able to sent the Tyrant on his own threat vector and help reach things the rest of my list can't. It also as you noted creates a "dangerous target" which more than anything keeps the Carnifex unit alive.
I was a big fan of the Flyrant in 5th edition and he can perform the same in 6th using the glide mode. That said I'd rather have a tank as the hub of my army... To me it's a much better investment of those points.
ReplyDeleteGreat insights both in the post and the comments; I just worry at how few troops the list has. The more I think about it though, I think having so few troops actually helps muck with the opponent's target prioritization. Maybe a key insight for lower point value (1250-1750) armies in 6th, where building a swarm may be harder. Two tervs at that pv is about the best you can do to generate the troops you need, but having one as warlord and the other a the sole 'heavy' troop choice puts target priority almost exclusively on them.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I feel that for the most part the Tyrant takes the target priority cake. I did today though have a game where my opponent did target my HQ tervigon, but I have yet to find them being targeted for their troop abilities. Rather, the HQ point has made the tervigons much more sought as a target.
DeleteAt any point level higher than 1500 the second Tervigon starts as a troop, meaning I have 4 troops base before I spawn.