Woah. It has been too long. This post will begin my coverage of the spectacle that is Adepticon. This year was my first time at Adepticon, and while some things were not as immense as expected (in my head the whole event was bigger) the weekend fully met my expectations, and I am already looking forward to the next one.
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| Trying to keep Alex Fennell off the relic. |
As for the event there is very little I could say that would be any different than the rest of the commentators online. I really like the four day format, especially considering how with the weather (tons of roads were closed from rain and flooding) made Thursday go until after midnight. The terrain was amazing, and really made alternating placement work. I have openly advocated since the event for all tournaments to begin using this method. As for the Renegade Open GT, we don’t feel we would be able to create uniform large pieces like Adpeticon had, but we are intentionally working toward the point where we can use alternating terrain placement in our event.
I will be doing some battle reports and tournament summaries
later this week, but I figure I will say a few things about daemons. The first
thing is that I have some serious doubts about their competitive ability. This is
partially due to the high degree of balance the new books have been seeing.
Facing things like shooty necrons or grey knights is a challenge for any list,
but the lack of decent save on the daemons really seems to be a death sentence.
The hardest thing for me is getting used to the huge difference between T6 and
T5 in terms of the daemon princes.
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| The Great Unclean One defends against the lust of Slaanesh. |
Black Mace Prince – This guy was my MVP. Having as many S6
attacks as you get from the daemon weapon was great. I even made lists with CSM
primary to get an axe of blind fury prince in there (though I wouldn’t recommend
that list to anyone).
Great Unclean One –Yes he is slow, but he creates a huge zone where no one wants to go on the table, which in objective missions and the relic was indispensable and led to several won games.
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Great Unclean One –Yes he is slow, but he creates a huge zone where no one wants to go on the table, which in objective missions and the relic was indispensable and led to several won games.
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Seekers – The seekers were really good at A) soaking up fire
with the grimoire, or B) getting one successful charge off and then dying. I am
now interested in testing out small units of seekers to run as MSU annoyance
units.
Khorne Dogs – After the black mace prince I would rate these
guys as the best thing I had. They soak up so much fire power, greatly improving the
survivability of the list. I would note that their offensive output (at least
without a herald’s loci) was really low and as such I don't think the 60 khorne dog list will work like people think (not that I have tested it or anything.
Heldrake – These guys are not wowing me since I lost the
Masque’s old ability. I am going to keep one around because it keeps people
honest and when it comes in handy it is super useful. Overall though it really doesn't do much of anything.
Plague Drones – I faced these in the team tournament and they really did some serious work against both me and my team mates on the other table. They are fast, silly durable, and can make a headache for lots of units. I plan to test them out in the future as they really look like a standout unit that people didn't talk about much when the book dropped.
At the end of the day the daemons were not terrible. On the table I certainly didn't do badly by any stretch, but I feel that daemons fall into the same boat as tyranids. With Nids I did really well, even taking 3rd overall at a GT, but there were a few (two in the case of my Nidzilla army) lists that I could do nothing against. This, combined with general trouble making a list that feels right has led me to actually shelve my daemons.
In other words, the forecast for this blog includes, Orks, Blood Angels, and Imperial Guard on top of your regularly scheduled Adepticon coverage.
Plague Drones – I faced these in the team tournament and they really did some serious work against both me and my team mates on the other table. They are fast, silly durable, and can make a headache for lots of units. I plan to test them out in the future as they really look like a standout unit that people didn't talk about much when the book dropped.
At the end of the day the daemons were not terrible. On the table I certainly didn't do badly by any stretch, but I feel that daemons fall into the same boat as tyranids. With Nids I did really well, even taking 3rd overall at a GT, but there were a few (two in the case of my Nidzilla army) lists that I could do nothing against. This, combined with general trouble making a list that feels right has led me to actually shelve my daemons.
In other words, the forecast for this blog includes, Orks, Blood Angels, and Imperial Guard on top of your regularly scheduled Adepticon coverage.
I think the strength of Daemons right now is in their Psychic powers as well as flying MC's. I had a lot of luck beating up on those metal robots as I mitigated their movement and had lot of answers with the Lash of Despair with their fliers.
ReplyDeleteBut I really only had trouble with an assault heavy CSM/Daemon list as it was fast and very aggressive. I got lucky with not dying to dogs and getting off some key spells (dominate and halluciante) at the right times.
Still - the book might look horde but it feels much more like a Nidzilla list with better tricks and faster movement.
I think you could have a point in terms of psychic prowess. I have never been a big fan of telepathy, but my experience using it is both limited and was never of the scope that a Slaanesh DP army can provide. The higher mastery level and sheer amount of rolls could actually lead to results that I just can't see from my experience. My worry of course is that without biomancy, the already fragile daemon princes are even more likely to get punked. I certainly would agree that the anti-air the lash grants is useful, but I really also feel that the ID Psn 4+ Nurgle sword is something every daemon list needs. It makes a multitude of problems go away such as Tyranids, Swawn, and other multiwound nosense we see today. A Nurgle Prince with just the Balesword, as long as he is not charging through terrain, will more than likely kill the Swarmlord before the swarmlord can even swing. If I was playing something similar to your list I would replace the Thirster with a Nurgle prince just for this sort of threat projection.
DeleteI agree that Daemons are a rough match up for lists with lost of princes. I played the match up three times at Adepticon and every game win or lose was a struggle. You are correct in that telepathy mixed with the low Ld of daemons really makes for a huge defense against that kind of list.
I think it can be played as horde or big daemon. I am not sure though if it can be played as both like I was trying. I certainly think in the year ahead, whether people go back to MEQ armies or not really seals in the fate of this book, as I think it is pretty clear that daemons rock marines and IG of any variety.
Yup - the power of the book relies in impressive MC's.
DeleteUsually I would roll only Biomancy on the DP's and then roll Telepathy on the Keeper - I had one extra walking DP that would start with Telepathy - and then go to Biomancy as needed.
I do like the Idea of another DP in the BT spot - but he did well enough. I am trying out some herald nonsense for a tournament in May so will see. There is some nutty powers in there and depending on the "meta" will see how they do. I am just happy that so far all 6th books feel right in power level. They are not necrons but at least they can do stuff.
Which heralds are you looking at?
DeleteDon't get my "midtier codex" line wrong, I am a big Phil Kelly fan, and feel that him and Vetock have done a great job reigning in the power level of the codices. I look forward to a day where they all play at the level of DA and CSM. They may not be necrons, but they are a ton more fun to play!